People matter, not numbers….
By Amanda on Jun 12, 2009 in Featured
Those were the words that were stated at a church we use to work at. And is what any church in America would say. I wish it felt true. It seems now more than ever, in our ministry, numbers matter.
“How many do you have in your youth group?”
“How many came to the weekend service?”
“How many showed up at mid-week?”
How many, how many, how many? That’s all we are hearing around here. Does it matter? Yes. On one hand I understand that numbers can reflect growth and health. But I also understand the “elders” (or whatever they are called at your church) deciding a number that they think should be attending and holding an unrealistic and not to mention unhealthy expectation over the youth staff’s head is crazy. I know my husband has spent a lot of time refocusing our youth group to bring it to a more healthy place for the students and the staff. Unfortunately the “powers that be” aren’t saying, “Wow what a happy, healthy youth group you have here!” “More students are serving now, than ever.” “More students are plugged into a small group more than ever.” What they are saying is, “Wow, these numbers aren’t climbing like they used to. What’s wrong?” (Barf.) It is so hard to win. More games, more concerts, more events, more camps…that’ll reach ‘em! Run your staff so ragged that they don’t have time for their families, make them so tired they question their call into ministry. What a great idea, all in the name of more numbers!
Wouldn’t it be great and so refreshing to get back to the basic thought of, its the people that matter, not the numbers. Because if our people (including students, staff, and families) are taken care of don’t you think the rest will fall into place?
(Sorry for the soap-box-speech)
Angelina had a great question, that we ask ourselves in ministry time and time again. The neverending question: “You want to give your best to the church and youth group and it seems like more is expected but you want to be a healthy family also….How do you deal with that?
GREAT question! I have no idea . . . all I got for you is this: Wouldn’t it be great if youth pastor’s got paid overtime like the rest of the world!!???!! Then it would be the church paying when they expect more from their staff instead of just the family paying in precious time. At least the family would receive a monetary benefit from seeing their husband/father less, and maybe could afford to go on a real vacation!!!
We “try” to do this: when ministry and family clash, family comes first 90% of the time, as a result of my husband ONLY works 55 (the requirement at our church) hrs/week and he’s always feeling so behind. If my husband is always behind and would have to work 70 hours/week to get everything done the problem is not lack of productivity but lack of realistic expectations from those who manage him.
Ashley Christian | Jun 12, 2009 | Reply
“Run your staff so ragged that they don’t have time for their families, make them so tired they question their call into ministry.”
This is totally where I am at–with three kids and one on the way, my husband is more busy this year than ever with ministry, and now what? Next year we’ll have two of our own in school, two at home, and crazy busy.
I want to run from ministry often times. Will the slow down occur when it’s too late and our own kids are grown? I hope we don’t miss their little lives while running ragged after students, and watching the staff drop off one by one because they feel the same way. The only difference is, they have a choice of how much to commit to youth ministry.
Diana | Jun 12, 2009 | Reply
I’m sitting her nodding my head so hard it may fall off;)
We are in the same boat right now…
I’m so SICK of hearing “how many were at….”
My goodness! Why don’t they ask about what we did at that meeting, or bible study, or rally? Why don’t they ask about the kids that were there and how they are doing!? UGH…It’s nice to know there are others out there dealing with the same “how manys”
Ashley | Jun 12, 2009 | Reply
Wow! I hear you all. I am a youth pastor at a church. Have been YP for 15 years. Numbers are not everything and yes I use to think they were. By spending countless hours, days and weekends away from my family to have lots of students to show up on Sunday nights has cost me so much. Three years ago I realized the health of our students, family’s and my marriage was not healthy. I started doing more and more discipleship with students, youth workers and their fams. We where doing 90% outreach and 10% discipleship and seeing nothing except big numbers. I now do 20% outreach and 80% discipleship and leadership. We have more students on fire for Christ and they are excited about what God has done and is doing in their life. We have well over 100 core kids serving every weekend in our church. Jr. high and High School students leading small group, playing in bands. Numbers are important but the health of a student is so much more important. I vision is not how many but “When a student graduates high school they don’t graduate from their faith. Getting away from the numbers game is hard but it can be done and needs to be done. Spiritual growth is what matters most.
Dwayne | Jun 13, 2009 | Reply
I think it is tough to say that numbers don’t matter because every number represents a person-I think church leaders HAVE to ask how many. If your focus as a ministry is on small groups then report those numbers. Spiritual growth matters greatly, I think we can all totally agree on that, but I would add that one sign of a spiritually mature group is growth in numbers because when students are growing in their faith they are going to invite more people.
As far as getting paid for overtime I thought when we all signed up for full-time ministry we knew that was not part of the package! I knew when I started dating my now husband that he was never going to make a lot of money and I was okay with that from the beginning. Ministry is a lifestyle, not a job which means we make compromises and sacrifices that 8-5 accountants don’t have to make.
It may be time to sit down as a youth staff and re-evaluate the events that are being put on to figure out which ones are the most effective and put more time into those rather than putting time and energy into putting on lots of mediocre events and really only pushing a few events to get the best return for everyone’s time.
I would also say delegate…some of your volunteer leaders or parents may be willing to step in and help out with events if it is a time issue. Use your resources!
Heather Simons | Jun 13, 2009 | Reply
I agree with Heather when she says that numbers are important in that they represent a person. But I wonder if, when elders/pastors ask for numbers, it is because it is the most accessible unit of measure they have. When that happens, it makes me think that those elders/pastors don’t REALLY know what’s going on in the ministry, the changes that have been made, how healthy it is or it isn’t. So I wonder if it would work to invite those elders/pastors to a few youth events and then hold a debriefing to discuss what’s really going on in the youth ministry, apart from pure numerical data.
Sarah | Jun 14, 2009 | Reply
We believe that we have been called to MINISTER, not be glorified entertaining baby sitters. What good are numbers if you never really minister to anyone?
I don’t think you have to apologize for a soap box speech, Amanda. It seems that you are not the only one that feels that way.
God’s blessing to you all and your MINISTRY!
Jennifer C. | Jun 16, 2009 | Reply
Love it! I just left a church because of that. The youth group I started was healthy and growing…but too slowly for the powers above.
I wish more church leaders would see that youth ministry must get away from this numbers game if we’re ever going to make an impact in the kingdom with LONG TERM spiritual health.
It’s great to see that I’m not alone in what I believe about youth ministry…
Gary | Jun 16, 2009 | Reply
I’m just literally sat here gaping in shock that somebody would be required to work 55 hours per week!!!!!!! that’s absolutely insane!? is that a UK/US difference? over here normal weekly hours are 38/40 hours per week!
Sarah Hulme | Jun 17, 2009 | Reply
AMEN!
Melissa ONeal | Jun 17, 2009 | Reply
I have so much to say to some posts… however, instead I will say once again Amanda I admire your openness in this area…
Amanda (but not the official one) | Jun 19, 2009 | Reply
Sarah-
The typical full time work week in the US is 40 hours, but generally youth pastors work many more hours than that (at least in my experience). Part of this is because the job becomes interwoven into life; the job is loving and shepherding people, so it can be hard to put set hours to that. Still, obviously, it can get out of hand, and I’m a little surprised at youth pastors being required to work at least 55 hours, too!
Sarah | Jun 22, 2009 | Reply
Oh how many times I have had this conversation (which is an excelent one to have). Being a director of an outreach program that hosted youth groups, I would have this conversation with 20-40 YP’s a year. I would hear heart breaking after heart breaking story.
Now, I am a YP, which I didn’t really want, but God has directed me too. I have joined a newish church w/ basically no youth or youth program. So obviously I have to have #’s because having no youth means no job. So I have quickly pounded in the numbers while at the same time doing intense discipleship. I try to keep everything we do a balance of building relationships with those who don’t know Jesus and discipling those who are seeking Him.
Ironically what I have run into is “good numbers but until I see salivations, #’s mean nothing”, “great that you have met 70 youth that hate church, but did you tell them the gospel? If not whats the point?!” “Everything you do to reach out to youth is pointless unless it brings them to church.” And I’m sure if the number growth slows, which it will soon, the question will swing back to the #’s issue. Growth will constantly be measured by either #’s or spiritual growth and which ever is lacking is what the attention will be put on. All that said, I am definitely finding more pressure to prove salvation and get kids to attend church than grow a large numbered youth program.
The big issue to me is that we create formulas to evaluate instead of talking to Jesus. We all see God through a pair of shades. One set of shades will be looking for 1 more kid to be plugged in, while another looking for 1 more salvation, while another looking for good Bible teaching, and another looking for more community involvement… As YP’s we get a thrashing of everyone thinking the way they see something is THE WAY! They think they can see God better than most everyone else. This is pride and it ruins churches, youth and us YP’s along with our families.
Marcus | Jun 25, 2009 | Reply
Our church got the 55 thing assuming that if you worked a regular 40hr/w job and volunteered at the church 15hr/w you’d be putting in 55 total. Years ago when we were interviewing one church required 65/w and another 50/w. Balance is going to look different for everyone, depending on if you have kids or not, etc.
The thing that stuck with me after reading the comments, is Mary and Martha. Are we more busy working for God than we are sitting at his feet? Ministry is not a substitute for a relationship with our Creator but rather an out flowing of it. In the same way numbers say something about the width of our ministry but not of the depth. Every person is a number just the same at a concert, a party, at church, but are their lives being changed for the glory of God?
Ashley Christian | Jun 28, 2009 | Reply
This is our first year in youth ministry and I have to say, I was never expecting my husband to put in more hours in ministry than he did in his sales job! His phone never stops going off, email and facebook, all night long! I can’t even have a 5 minute conversation without being interrupted by a student in need of his attention! Although I love this, and this is what I signed up for right along side him… It is hard to figure out when to turn the lines of communication off between the students so he has time for me and our son without interruptions!
Numbers mean nothing when all your doing is playing games… people are never asking about the number of students who are sprituallay maturing each week! That should be priority!
Kylee | Jun 29, 2009 | Reply
My husband was let go this week after serving for 7 years in our church for financial reasons, but I can only wonder how much numbers played a role. Please pray for us and our students to accept God’s leading in this situation.
L | Jul 11, 2009 | Reply