What’s Next?
By Amanda on Dec 23, 2009 in Featured
A great post from Ashely.
Let’s just be honest ladies, youth ministry is HARD! So hard in fact that it has one of the highest turn over rates of any ministry job. 18 months to be exact. Yep, that’s right, 18 months is the average stay of a Youth Pastor at a church. Can you believe that! It seems unbelievable, then some-days you can completely understand why. Underpaid, overworked, under appreciated. Even on my most optimistic days those 3 words are a reality in youth ministry. It truly saddens me that such a beautiful, kingdom exploding job can be so tough on the families that serve. My husband and I have been at this youth ministry thing for 11 years now. 30 creeps in and you find yourself asking, what’s next? Will he be a youth pastor when he’s 40? Do they even hire 50 year old youth pastors??
Only a very teeny tiny percentage of guys in YM retire as youth ministers. My question to you is, what’s next? Go the long haul where you are? Another youth pastor job? Working your way up to a larger church? Senior pastor, missionary, church planter, teacher, firefighter, starbucks barista?
xo
Ashley Christian
I (Amanda) know this is something that crosses my mind every-so-often. The “what’s next” idea is scary and uncertain. And usually if you are serving in ministry you are feeling God’s call to be there now, and its hard to see beyond.
It’s definitely not something to sit in and worry about but I am curious what you guys do with that question. How do you answer that for yourselves and you families?
That one has always been an easy one for me. What next? Whatever God says to do. I know that he has the next step and is never surprised by it. (But it is fun to think of all the different things that might be the what next!) Hang on for the adventure.
Shari | Dec 23, 2009 | Reply
We’re on sabbatical right now, just over the half way mark. The first half was to just BE, but now we are going to begin to commence to start in (haha) on thinking of the “what now? what next?”. My husband has been youth pastor for eight years at our church, and we’re thinking of a change. But a change to what and when…those are the hard questions! And I have no answers!
Leilani | Dec 25, 2009 | Reply
My family is part of that statistic… hubby spent 12 mos. at our first church and 18 at our second. We’ve been at our current church 33 mos.
YM IS hard… ministry is hard. I don’t think that any position in ministry lends itself to being easy. However, being married to a YP who has no further calling than to be a YP, some days I ask God “why (occupational) ministry?!” A Starbucks barista sounds pretty good to me!
Mrs. H | Dec 26, 2009 | Reply
My husband frequently threatens to go work at Wal-Mart as a greeter. We’ve been at our church nearly 11 years and have gone through a lot of changes. When I get restless (wondering if it’s time to leave) I know God has something He wants to teach me. BTW, my husband just turned 40 & he’s still in YM.
Thank you SO much for this blog. I just found it today. Thank you for your total honesty – it’s just what I needed to hear.
Nancy L. | Dec 28, 2009 | Reply
My darling husband is a youth pastor. We have been married 10 years and the past 5 years he has been in ministry full-time. Prior to that, he was bi-vocational.
When we talk about ‘what’s next’, we usually pray and pray and both end up leaning toward mission work. We don’t anticipate that happening any time soon, but it is an exciting thought!
I spent two weeks in October on a mission trip to Rwanda. I constantly thought that my husband and our four little boys would have loved it there. When I got home, my husband’s first question (that was not directly related to the results of the trip) was, “Did you find us a house while you were there?”
Maybe Someday!!
Colleen | Dec 28, 2009 | Reply
It is with a heavy heart that I’ve come back to reading this blog. No, I’m not married to a youth pastor, but I’m a 23 year old woman/girl who’s been in a 4 year relationship with the head of our church’s youth. He is 25.
I came to his church without much of a Christian Protestant background. I had been raised Catholic for the most part, and had come to be rather disillusioned and unhappy with the Catholic doctrines which I felt were rather detracting from the Bible. But that’s another story.
His church is a small one, mainly made up of family. Everyone was very close knit, and pretty much everyone knew each other’s dirty laundry. When I found K, I had been looking for God elsewhere besides the church I’d been attending for years with my family members, and began attending service with him.
In the second month or so, of us going ’steady’ (gosh I hate that word, it sounds cheesy), K revealed that he had been still seeing his ex girlfriend, and had ended up going too far with her. I was crushed, but I asked him whether he wanted to be with her again, to which he said no. He told me he’d sorted out his feelings and what he wanted, and I chose to take him back, though it would take me well over two years to fully get over that.
K’s role was a strange one, both a member of the youth group yet leader of it. And it was clear how much the rest of the youth looked up to him, and how much the entire church in general put him on a pedestal as one of the upcoming leaders of church when the duty was passed on. While he was youth president, the senior pastor’s daughter, L, was youth pastor, overseeing the youth group and their activities, often counselling and rebuking us.
It was difficult jumping into a new circle that had grown up together. Being somewhat introverted though I have a vocal side, I never grew really close to anyone. It was plain to see that in particular, the girls of church seemed to somewhat idolise K. They’d sit on his lap sometimes, hug him, etc. He never seemed lecherous of any sort, and stopped the lap sitting, though he was obviously close to them and somewhat generous with his affections to family and ‘family’. In contrast, though he was very close to me when we were out of the church setting, within church he’d be smiley yet somewhat distant, as if he were somewhat uncomfortable with our relationship.
While I somewhat wore my heart on my sleeve when it came to him and would greet him with a hug and kiss on the cheek when I saw him, he would be, somehow, closer to the youths than he was to me.
He is something of a people pleaser of sorts, liking to be everyone’s best friend in a way. He was the golden boy of church, well liked and he would take the youths out for one-on-one meetings and lunches/dinners, to talk to them whenever they had problems. This extended to both guys and girls. K is also quite a yes-man, and not quite as personal with his home boundaries as I would have liked. Still, his affections for the youth group was in a brotherly way, and I never protested when he had them over in his house (in his room) watching TV or playing video games.
However, growing pressure was on me, I felt, to somehow live up to his standard. The encouragement not to be ‘unequally yoked’ sometimes popped up. When our senior pastor prayed over me, he often mentioned my relationship with K in his prayer. However, with K there was no such thought of me. My life had been well and truly associated with his, but his life was still seen to be independent of me.
When K missed important dates and anniversaries at the eleventh hour I grew frustrated. Increasingly, arguments between girls in the youth group somehow always attracted him because they would come crying to him trying to win him over to their side, thinking that his approval meant their victory over the other party. It was when I witnessed this show of venom that I told 2 girls, his niece S, and another girl, P, to stop using him for their agendas. While P was apologetic, S retaliated on her blog, stating that K’s life would be much better off without me anyway, and that it was none of my business, then in the next line professing how much she loved K and how nice he is to her. To my knowledge, K didn’t do anything or say much to her, and youth pastor L had a stern but very brief talk with the 2 girls and I, saying she didn’t care what the problem was, but that we shouldn’t be fighting. I guess my reaction was a little hot headed, but it wasn’t the first (or last) time this happened.
Incidentally a couple of weeks later, S and another youth girl, J, threw a surprise party for K for his birthday. I wasn’t invited, and found out when K sent me a text about the lovely birthday surprise which apparently, everyone else knew about but me.
A couple of months ago, I had been feeling the effects that the strain of that pressure to be like K had put on me. I realised that my faith had become a farce. I’d been trying to force myself to grow in the Lord and appear a faithful and lovely servant, that I’d lost track of God. I’d been too dependent on K, almost worshipful, and it had to stop.
I brought this up to K, and I brought up the idea of taking a break from church. I was hesitant, but he told me to go ahead with the church break, as well as a break from our relationship. I was unsure, but I followed his lead. We’d intended it to be a ’single but not available’ thing, with every intention of getting back together when I had had my hand firmly in God’s.
The next week was a fulfilling one. I attended another church, was immensely blessed by the sermon, and was growing to appreciate God more. Despite missing him, I was sure that it would all be alright. I looked forward to getting back together. But then, being told by K some of the issues, L stepped in and told him that we should treat it as a real breakup, ie. no contact as lovers. I wasn’t for the idea, but him looking up to L, he followed her advice.
I’m not going to be mean, but L is my mother’s age. She has never been married, though she has always wanted to, and has had a few very long, drawn out relationships behind her.
I tried to convince K that it wasn’t so much the relationship break that had inspired my change, but the church break. We had occasional ‘dates’, in which he was rather lukewarm, acting just friendly. On group outings, he was vastly closer to the others than to me, in particular, one of the girls, J. When I pointed all this out, he said it would only get worse and told me to think carefully about the life I wanted.
It had become difficult for me to focus on God and try to get back the relationship that was being pulled out of my grasp. I pleaded with K to see reason, but he stubbornly refused, stating that I’d experience more growth without that ’safety net’ we had in each other. Despite seeing me so little, he claimed he wanted what was best for me and urged a total breakup.
I’d began to despair when K said that he wasn’t sure our relationship was meant to be. He told me rather bluntly that he hadn’t really been missing me that month apart, saying that maybe he still had the feeling we were inseparable. But I was trying to claw myself out of the lonely hole I was in, while his life, in which I now seemed superfluous, remained virtually unchanged. He accused me of doubting his love for me when I refused to be totally apart, and advocated the benefits of breaking up.
Finally he sent a text saying it really was for the best. We saw each other a few times in the month that followed, and gradually our affections started getting back to the level they’d once been.
I was gaining some hope, but he told me he hadn’t fully decided if we were meant to be, and I said I would wait till we had.
Meanwhile I noticed a change towards how J acted towards him, and in a conversation she confessed to me that she had had feelings for him for a long time. I told her she should wait as it wasn’t over… And well, she’s 18. But I said that I didn’t hate her or anything, and she said she didn’t want any dirty tricks between us in vying for his affection. I agreed and told her I loved her like a sister and would trust her.
I did confide in K the next day about her confession, and he was shocked to hear about it. I told him not to give her any ideas, especially in this time, and he agreed. We were close, and I sometimes ranted about my slight frustration that she could be close to him, but not me. But I told him not to worry, for I trusted him, and her. And he replied that he wasn’t worried at all.
I came back to our church for Christmas service, and invited K to my family house party for Christmas dinner. He said with a sigh that he was tired. I presumed emotionally or mentally, since just minutes before, he’d sent out a text to all the youth asking if they wanted to go to the beach to play Frisbee.
The party started at 7, and K finally arrived at about eleven, after having the day out and then dinner with J’s parents and the other 2-3 youths who had come along to the beach.
After the party, K asked me to come over to his place, and reluctantly I told him that while I missed him, I was afraid that it would lead to physical intimacy, and that I would become something of a convenient filler in his life. We had been intimate before, though it was somewhat on and off, a struggle we fought but had never had the true drive to really conquer.
It turned into a long talk where I poured out how I’d been feeling to him. And then, he revealed that he had been seeing J, after we had had our ‘total breakup’ which hadn’t quite been so total after all. They had kissed, to the point of making out in his room. When she’d ‘confessed’ her feelings about him, they had already been together, and his shock about her had been feigned. Both of them had lied to me, very convincingly, apparently.
I was utterly shattered. Four years of a relationship, and he had moved on to someone else in just less than a month. He said that it had seemed alright to him, because the breakup had been pretty clear, but all I could think of was the fact that we had been intimate even after that breakup, and that even during that time he was with her.
He told me that he did have feelings for her, and had wanted to ‘test the waters’ of what it felt like to be with someone other than me. He had been doubting his own love because of how seemingly comfortable he’d been with the break. He said he was pretty sure things with them wouldn’t work out, as she was much younger, as well as the parental support of their relationship, or lack thereof.
All his talk about having been seeking God and wanting the best for me flew out the window. I wept in anger and hurt, and even then asked him to come back to me, to which he cried and asked me how I could still want him after that.
In a whirlwind I went over to his house, and stayed the night, but while he slept rather soundly, I was awake, fighting back tears.
In the morning fury overtook me and he awoke to my frustrated crying and hugged me. When he went to the bathroom, his phone rang four times with calls from J, and I finally texted her from my cell saying, “For your information, I’m here.” When he came back, I told him what I’d said to her and he nodded wordlessly as he stroked me on the top of my head. He checked his phone texts then said that she had said she was sorry, for disturbing. I angrily retorted that if disturbing was all she was sorry for, then she wasn’t truly sorry at all.
We had lunch, and he was sweet and loving, but a huge ache was within me. Later during dinner with some guys from church (the majority of the youth are somewhat clueless about the events) and was unusually outward with his love, holding my hand and walking with me for the most part, which he doesn’t do often in front of them.
That night I told him I didn’t see how he could love me, yet seemingly get over me so fast. I said that if he really wanted me, he could come back to me. But until then, it had always been me making the move, and I wasn’t going to be the doormat anymore. He said he didn’t deserve me as much as he did love me still and always, and yet again, I asked him to come back.
It’s been a day or so, and I just have been something of an emotional wreck. It isn’t the first time he’s been unfaithful, and it’s been such a bitter pill to swallow.
We’ve made so many mistakes, yet with each other we’re totally comfortable and enjoy a bond that extends to being best friends as well as lovers.
I am sorry for writing quite so much but I don’t believe I could accurately describe the whole situation before giving a background of who he is. At the heart of it all, he’s a good person – just really terrible with boundaries, and it was a disaster waiting to happen when he was so close to young females.
I told him that the way he did things ensured that this would happen again, and urged him, not only for our sake but any relationships he might have if ours didn’t work out, to rethink the lines drawn between personal friendships, and youth ministry. He seems a little torn as he has always believed the relationships he had individually with the youth members has helped them open up with him. What do we do, really?
I beg for all your counsel. I’m not sure I’ll ever get over this, and even if I do, it will take lots of time and effort, which I’m willing to put in. But it seems so hard… Please, do pray for me, and him. You all know the struggles that I will face, please help me.
Maria | Dec 29, 2009 | Reply
I apologise yet again for such a long post and perhaps also for ‘hijacking’ this blog post with my issues.
Maria | Dec 29, 2009 | Reply
I just wanted to let Maria know that I am praying for her and her situation. I am on facebook and I also have a blog (http://marynorton.blogspot.com/) through which I’d like to talk to you in more detail if you’d like. But if not, know that you are prayed for. I am 29 and my husband and I have been doing YM for 7 years (we have been married 8.)
I love this blog and the honesty it evokes. We wonder too where we’ll be in 10-20 years…!
Mary Norton | Jan 1, 2010 | Reply
I ran across this website on a yahoo search for people engaged to youth ministers. I don’t know if this is the right place for this or not but I was wondering if anyone could give me any advice as to what I am getting myself into.
My name is Claisha and I have just turned eighteen and am engaged to and planning to get married to a wonderful guy who has devoted his life to youth ministry. I guess I maybe be unquie because I am not only going to get to be part of the ministry life but I am going to get to see it from the very begining! I am so very excited but I am also very overwhelmed. Any advice would be great!
Claisha | Jan 1, 2010 | Reply
Maria I’m so sorry for this heart break. I know I don’t know you well, but after reading your post, my overwhelming feeling is that you should run far far away from this guy. (easier said than done I know.) But really he doesn’t sound like the kind of guy who you would want to spend your life with, and second of all I find his actions towards you and other very young girls completely inappropriate and that would get him fired at any church I know of. Run to the arms of our savior, he won’t let you down.
Ashley Christian | Jan 2, 2010 | Reply
What’s next?? My husband & I have only been at our church for 6 months and are ready to leave. Unfortunately, it is because of the pastor & his wife. They do not have a good marriage. It is a small church and we’ve witnessed godly families leaving because the pastor ignores their insight. 4 board members out of six have quit in the last six months, 3 in the last month.
We love the youth (we have about 30) and the people but the pastor’s wife offends and is offended by almost everyone and the pastor allows people in leadership who only want it for selfish gain.
It’s been a really hard first position for my husband (who is 23). He’s questioning if he ever wants to work for a church again after going through this mess.
My advice to those looking for a new position: ask church goers or other staff members about the pastor’s marriage and interview the wife. Had we known, we would never have taken this position.
Amberly | Jan 2, 2010 | Reply
Maria, I can only completely agree with Maria. Get Out Now. This guy sounds like he’s going to land himself in real trouble and he’s going to drag you down with him. He’s not treating you right and his relationship with the young people sounds like he’s in danger of crossing some serious legal boundaries. As someone who has seen youth ministers of his age before a court on under-age charges, for your own sake, break off contact with him and move churches. You can’t change his behaviour, it’s up to other guys to hold him accountable and help him sort himself out. I’m absolutely shocked he’s still in a leadership position. Bless you mate, you’re prayed for across the pond as well and especially to have the strength to break away from him.
Sarah | Jan 3, 2010 | Reply
*Mari, I can only completely agree with Ashley. Sorry for the typo!
Sarah | Jan 3, 2010 | Reply
I guess I ought to update everyone. No, I haven’t made a decision, but I have grilled K extensively, as well as spoken to J.
The youth pastor, L, seems to be a little irritated with my need to know everything. I spoke to my mother about this and she stated that they probably want to hush everything up and not break up the church youth over our relationship.
But I think this all stems deeper than that. In a way perhaps we were all to blame. Some more than most, and I’m not absolving him of blame but he certainly was never held accountable.
Personally I’m tired of being quiet. I’m tired of covering up our sins and having everyone in church sticking their fingers in their ears going “NYAH NYAH I CAN’T HEAR YOU” whenever a problem comes up. I’m tired of church being the place where we tell the most lies. Things like this need to come out in the open to show people just how easily the enemy creeps into the ranks when people just don’t talk about it.
Our church is a very small one. Many of the girls in the youth group have grown up with him and they’re all generally very huggy and all with each other. Some people raise eyebrows but nobody’s afraid to say it outright.
I’ve spoken to him a lot and I know the where, when, what, and how, for the most part. What I can’t put together is the why. I know he had one very difficult 3-year relationship before me when he was in the army (2 years national service is compulsory here) and she had been flirting around and could never stay with him. Am I making excuses? No. No background permits someone to be a jerk to the next person. But I speak from experience as someone who has been abused, or treated like an object, that you take those sentiments with you into the next relationship when you don’t give yourself the time to come to terms with those feelings.
I’ve loved this man. Perhaps I sound silly? How do I explain it? I see that he could be so much more. He’s confused and guilty and sad and has been withdrawing into himself, and he’s certainly made a total mess of things. But I think he can be changed. I think in a way church has been a blessing and a curse to him. He feels condemned and perhaps he should be. The youth pastor, bless her soul, seems to want me to break up with him yet she still has him in his leadership position. I’ve always gotten the idea she felt I questioned too much and would love for me to be out of the picture.
As much as he’s been an ass, I cannot walk away and see him throw his life out the window. I have lots of apprehension about continuing the relationship and we’ve decided that we should just be friends for now. More than anything, I do love him and want to see him get better. The veil of idolising him I’ve had is now gone…
I’m just tired, really. I’m numb, I haven’t cried since talking to him last night. Even he has told me numerous times that I should just walk away and get a fresh start. But me, I’m stubborn. I don’t leave things unfinished.
More than me, I ask you all to pray for him. Maybe he seems like the devil in disguise to many of us, and perhaps I seem like yet another stupid victim walking into the trap. Pray for my strength and discernment, and his. And for our church. God knows we need the prayer right now.
Thank you all again.
Maria | Jan 3, 2010 | Reply
Let just encourage you. There have been experiences in the past with the senior pastor and his family that have causes me to ask the same question. Do I want to serve in a church again. During these times working in a factory has seemed like a great alternative. There has been one thing keeping me from doing this over the ten years I have been in ministry. God just won’t let me out of my calling. I have even begged him to allow me to do something else. He has never given me peace about anything but youth ministry. I have foun that what I had a habbit of doing in my early years was I put the senior pastor on a high pedastle and when he fell off I was deeply crushed. Remember that you are dealing with a human being and be patient for god to direct you. Don’t let this situation discourage you from ministry. There will be challenges everywhere. Currently I am 32 and wondering if I am nearing the end of my youth ministry career. I love it but am starting to feel drawn other places. It’s scarry and I have no idea what is next or when I need to really start pursuing what ever “it” is. Keep on going, even if it is another church. There are kids who need you right now who are hurting. God is going to bring you to them. Just be patient.
Dave | Feb 2, 2010 | Reply
I can not imagine being in any other ministry besides youth ministry. My husband makes the comment about one day down the road about becoming a senior pastor, and I just look at him and say I am not the senior pastor wife type. I dont fit the mold, and dont want the weight that a family in that position deals with. I want him in youth ministry as long as possible. I have a heart for missions, and dream of my kids growing up out of the US, and dedicating our lives there. Slowly God is showing me more and more. I still have no desire to be anywhere else but youth ministry, but I have met some incredible pastors wives that dont fit the mold and are incredible. Time changes things, as I continue to go through the process God has for me, I am sure he will guide us and direct us into different areas. But this chapter in our lives is definitely youth, and what the next chapter holds, I can not see or imagine.
Destiny | Feb 3, 2010 | Reply